Just had a cancer diagnosis (bile duct, I'm 53). Surgery in a months time will hopefully see me healthy again after it, but I've already decided to make changes even if it has spread and I only have a much shorter time to live.
I always thought I'd contemplated life and death before this (I am not religious), but having had several weeks of genuinely not knowing if I only had a week to live, I think you only really do this fully in that kind of situation. Even if I am cured, my life and attitude will never be the same again.
Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. I had a similar experience 12 years ago. Pls email (address in bio) if I can be of any assistance (e.g. book recs). In any case, good luck w/ your surgery!
The premise that your life should be work until 65 and then you can finally do what you want is so depressing to me. I have goals beyond just doing what I want, but it all just seems like an endless rat race i can never win as I chase money/prestige in order to accomplish those goals or those things serve as a nice but ultimately meaningless byproduct of accomplishing those goals while my life slips away.
At this point I think most jobs have good days and bad days and there's some enjoyment/pride in being productive and valued at in a job environment. I'm not full r/antiwork or anything but when you take a 10k foot view and realize almost no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time working / on their computer it's hard to not feel like it's a all a big miscalculation on our parts.
Most of the time, those over-achievers from the outside lead a very unhappy, constantly unfulfilled life. I've met few of those up close (former girlfriends, close friends) and oh boy its a sad view once you see full picture. Success is never really enjoyed for long, there is always next target to chase. Close people around suffer accordingly.
Then when you know what signs to look for, you see it a lot more among those 'very successful'.
There is one success for me - living a good life that one is happy to have lived when looking back old/dying. Good, sometimes hard moral choices instead of less moral shortcuts. A lot of people put themselves a lot of such baggage over years and from young happy folks they are grumpy envious older ones (there are many more reasons for such of course). Whatever such success means to you, all the power to you. For most of us, work achievement are pretty low in that list, so look for success elsewhere in life.
From experience, I can say that If you were conditioned from a young age to believe that achievement and status were important in life it’s an incredibly hard instinct to let go of. You’re totally right that it’s damaging for those around you and can lead to bitterness as you age. It’s something I have to grapple with everyday and it’s exhausting.
I think this is a curse that gets inflicted on far too many “gifted” children. While young they get lots of praise for their accomplishments and outcomes and it can drown out any intrinsic motivation to do things that make them happy.
The main issue with turning the dial to "life" early is that your peer group usually hasn't. My peers spend most of their time on work: sometimes to pay the bills, sometimes for status laddering, sometimes for reasons I don't get.
I have found friends that are less focused on work - sometimes because they have more control over their hours and sometimes because they are past retirement age and sometimes because they don't work for other reasons.
I'm looking forward to the next decade+ as maybe more of my peer group friends will choose (or be able to choose) to do less work hours/days.
Reading or seeing things like this on the internet also makes me reflect on my life and think about what my priorities should be, and I'm not really in a financial position where I can just retire and turn the dial all to way to "life" but the best thing I can learn from this is to appreciate the little things in life. Like living in a first world country, having food to eat, hot showers, a bed, good health, etc.
> I am taking my work/life balance and turning the dial all the way to “life”.
That is an awesome way to put it.
We don't often hear about everyone's troubles and trauma. And seeing it written down is surely nothing compared to living through it. But there is a lot of it out there, whether we know about it or not, so when people go through it... I heartily approve of recognizing that life is more important than work, and knowing when to adjust that dial.
Recognizing when life is more important than work? Did you miss the part where his wife died BEFORE "tuning the dial to life"? The lesson you should get from his post is not to make that mistake.
This forum is absurd. I don't need a cancer diagnosis to tell me I'm not living to complete OKRs and quarterly goals.
I'm a good employee and a dedicated worker but my goal since day one has been to do the least shitty job I can land, retire as fast as possible, and get on with the good parts of life. I've had the dial as far to life as possible forever.
But I'm working class, so I can't just retire when I realize the value of my life due to a medical emergency. Being able to do that is not a virtue that should be praised like this forum is doing, it is a gift that should be appreciated for the privilege that it is.
I only pray I can earn enough to turn my dial all the way to life, sometime before my body gives up on me
First of all, truly sorry to the author for what happened to them, it is devastating, and something that indeed will shake your world and priorities.
Any advice for people who are not finding the courage to quit, despite probably having the financial means to do so?
I came from very humble origins and moved to Silicon Valley from another country and have a gained a fairly solid financial situation, by having accumulated $5.5M liquid with expenses of around $50k (no kids, no mortgage, just a loving girlfriend).
I am so unhappy with work. I have changed 3 employers over the past 4 years and I’ve been more and more depressed with each transition. I spend my life in a state of immense disappointment about having to work. I am not even passionate about software anymore, so it’s not only the corporate madness (meetings, offices, coworkers, bosses, pressure to perform, code reviewers, etc). My weekends are filled with anxiety about Mondays.
I haven’t quit yet because everyone is telling me not to: my parents, still living in another country, are telling me to milk it until I am 45 (38 now), the few close friends I have are telling me not to squander the opportunity to earn until I get to $10-$15M due to real estate/healthcare/lifestyle costs going up (especially if I revisit the decision not to have kids, which I don’t think I will), and even financial communities like bogleheads/fire subs are telling me it’s not time yet and that I need to accumulate more given my privileged position.
I’ve tried a couple therapist but it didn’t work for me.
I also do not have anything to retire to: no particular passions, or hobbies. I just dream of spending a life of slow breakfasts, hiking on Monday mornings to celebrate a new week, reading books, slow traveling, and spending more time close to my aging parents.
That sucks, what he went through. That happens to a lot of people. As we get older, it tends to happen more often.
Sounds like he made exactly the correct choice. I support him in continuing to make correct choices. This is but the first of many.
I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of the tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job.
It absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. It also coincided with close family members having some health issues, so my being available has been beneficial.
In my case, I really enjoy programming and tech; just not when it is being ruined by terrible managers and coworkers. I was really starting to hate what I did, and having full control of my own process, made all the difference.
For one thing, it showed that I was usually right, in my personal philosophies, which were regularly disparaged by said managers. When given the chance to practice my own personal Process, things have been going very well, indeed.
So I get to work for free. It's a blast. I've gotten more accomplished, in the seven years, since I was pushed out, than I did, in the thirty preceding years.
In my case, I am involved in organizations that constantly surround me with people with whom I have very intimate relationships. Socializing isn't a problem; but I understand that it can be a real issue for retired people. This goes double, for ones that have the means to wall themselves off from others.
I do know a number of folks that preceded me, in retirement, after long, lucrative careers. Most, were dead within five years of retirement.
> ...I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of the tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job...It absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me...
I would say i'm about a decade or maybe a decade and half before i can freely retire...But, already i see signs of the possibility of being frozen out of tech. Its such a fearful thing, and even moreso at a latter age! I quite enjoy technology both in isolation but also connecting proper tech to solve human problems...But so often it feels that at my $dayjobs, it always feels like we are solving the wrong problems...like chasing whatever some senior leader added into their presentation...as in, a goal for them, but not always something that is sustainable for the org, substantially helpful to people, etc. Its clear to me that while i still have the enthusiasm of my 25 year old around tech and genuinely helping people wit tech, i am so much more cynical about corporate use of tech. Nowadays, i'm at the point where i am seriously considering leaving tech, and trying to get some other job...and then only having fun with tech on the side, such as contributing to open source projects, playing on my own home lab, volunteering with orgs on digital divide, etc. I figure those sort of "hobbies" or side projects can also help me transition whenever the time comes for me to retire, of if/when i get pushed out. Now, i just have to ensure my costs are down so i can weather any salary hits.
@ChrisMarshallNY Sorry that you got impacted by a freezing out...But glad to hear that you're getting started on a new phase of life for you, and hoping it keeps being positive for you! Cheers!!!
> Now, i just have to ensure my costs are down so i can weather any salary hits.
That’s the key.
I have always lived extremely humbly, and haven’t carried any personal debt, beyond a mortgage on a very small house, since 1995. I maxed out my savings, and deferred stuff I couldn’t afford.
I’m still doing that now, and my savings generate more than I spend (for now). I’m hoping to have the ability to help my family, after I pass. They'll need as much help as possible.
Always enjoyed this blog. The post on thermal throttling stands out as a fun one, but there were many others. Hopefully Bruce comes back to writing at some point after some recovery time.
Or hopefully he finds anything at all that helps. I lost my mother just a little over a year ago and it was (is) hard. In addition to the pain of loss though losing your spouse has to be even more disruptive to moving forward with your life.
I retired early this year. My advice to anyone seeking to do so is think clearly about it. Because once you do it, you can never go back to that world. The world of waking up early, having a boss tell you what to do, going to meetings that mean absolutely nothing, running on that hamster wheel, seems so trite and meaningless afterwards. That's a good thing, but you can never go back. Then it becomes time to concentrate on what life is really about- your health, your relationships, having fun and discovering what life is like without that tether on your ankle. Everyone isn't cut out for that, some need that hamster wheel. The best people are cut out for it. :)
That sounds like a terrible year. I feel sorry for the poster. Life can come at you fast and sometimes I feel like I’m just bracing myself for such a life changing event.
I too was at Google. But for 7 years, not 10. And my employment terminated in April, not because of a life event like his.
But the feelings he expressed resonate with me. I stopped enjoying work and my performance tanked coinciding with a reorg and manager change.
I did not miss my job which just a couple years ago I actually enjoyed.
I wasn’t seriously thinking of leaving my job. Being pushed out forced me to evaluate what I do if that happened - which it did. And that evaluation is that I’m a lot happier and can reset what I want from life - it doesn’t have to be full on retirement.
I have always thought about life in the long go term. What legacy do I want to leave, how do I want to spend the last years, what do I want the late years to look like with my wife.
Sometimes it takes the outside world to force you into the next thing. Life does not discriminate but the best you can do is take a big step back and try to find a new lens to look at it through. There are many lenses.
Just had a cancer diagnosis (bile duct, I'm 53). Surgery in a months time will hopefully see me healthy again after it, but I've already decided to make changes even if it has spread and I only have a much shorter time to live.
I always thought I'd contemplated life and death before this (I am not religious), but having had several weeks of genuinely not knowing if I only had a week to live, I think you only really do this fully in that kind of situation. Even if I am cured, my life and attitude will never be the same again.
Back in ‘96, I had a brain tumor, operation, and learning to walk and chew gum again.
Kind of a bummer.
At the time, I wasn’t ready to retire, but if it had happened 20 years later, it probably would have resulted in my retirement.
Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. I had a similar experience 12 years ago. Pls email (address in bio) if I can be of any assistance (e.g. book recs). In any case, good luck w/ your surgery!
The premise that your life should be work until 65 and then you can finally do what you want is so depressing to me. I have goals beyond just doing what I want, but it all just seems like an endless rat race i can never win as I chase money/prestige in order to accomplish those goals or those things serve as a nice but ultimately meaningless byproduct of accomplishing those goals while my life slips away.
I actually enjoy my job (well, mostly anyway). I would probably do it for free tbh (except for some of the BS parts)
At this point I think most jobs have good days and bad days and there's some enjoyment/pride in being productive and valued at in a job environment. I'm not full r/antiwork or anything but when you take a 10k foot view and realize almost no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time working / on their computer it's hard to not feel like it's a all a big miscalculation on our parts.
Sadly it often takes a devastating life event to make us rethink our position and priorities in life.
We work to live, not live to work, and don't you let any overachieving founder mode startup bro sell you otherwise.
Sorry for the author's loss.
Most of the time, those over-achievers from the outside lead a very unhappy, constantly unfulfilled life. I've met few of those up close (former girlfriends, close friends) and oh boy its a sad view once you see full picture. Success is never really enjoyed for long, there is always next target to chase. Close people around suffer accordingly.
Then when you know what signs to look for, you see it a lot more among those 'very successful'.
There is one success for me - living a good life that one is happy to have lived when looking back old/dying. Good, sometimes hard moral choices instead of less moral shortcuts. A lot of people put themselves a lot of such baggage over years and from young happy folks they are grumpy envious older ones (there are many more reasons for such of course). Whatever such success means to you, all the power to you. For most of us, work achievement are pretty low in that list, so look for success elsewhere in life.
From experience, I can say that If you were conditioned from a young age to believe that achievement and status were important in life it’s an incredibly hard instinct to let go of. You’re totally right that it’s damaging for those around you and can lead to bitterness as you age. It’s something I have to grapple with everyday and it’s exhausting.
I think this is a curse that gets inflicted on far too many “gifted” children. While young they get lots of praise for their accomplishments and outcomes and it can drown out any intrinsic motivation to do things that make them happy.
The main issue with turning the dial to "life" early is that your peer group usually hasn't. My peers spend most of their time on work: sometimes to pay the bills, sometimes for status laddering, sometimes for reasons I don't get.
I have found friends that are less focused on work - sometimes because they have more control over their hours and sometimes because they are past retirement age and sometimes because they don't work for other reasons.
I'm looking forward to the next decade+ as maybe more of my peer group friends will choose (or be able to choose) to do less work hours/days.
Reading or seeing things like this on the internet also makes me reflect on my life and think about what my priorities should be, and I'm not really in a financial position where I can just retire and turn the dial all to way to "life" but the best thing I can learn from this is to appreciate the little things in life. Like living in a first world country, having food to eat, hot showers, a bed, good health, etc.
This is the person who was in the news a few years ago for commuting to Google campus using 19 different methods in 19 days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWftDrwY2U
> I am taking my work/life balance and turning the dial all the way to “life”.
That is an awesome way to put it.
We don't often hear about everyone's troubles and trauma. And seeing it written down is surely nothing compared to living through it. But there is a lot of it out there, whether we know about it or not, so when people go through it... I heartily approve of recognizing that life is more important than work, and knowing when to adjust that dial.
I would gladly work for 1/2 the money to work 1/2 the hours. Like 30 actual hours per week.
Recognizing when life is more important than work? Did you miss the part where his wife died BEFORE "tuning the dial to life"? The lesson you should get from his post is not to make that mistake.
This forum is absurd. I don't need a cancer diagnosis to tell me I'm not living to complete OKRs and quarterly goals.
I'm a good employee and a dedicated worker but my goal since day one has been to do the least shitty job I can land, retire as fast as possible, and get on with the good parts of life. I've had the dial as far to life as possible forever.
But I'm working class, so I can't just retire when I realize the value of my life due to a medical emergency. Being able to do that is not a virtue that should be praised like this forum is doing, it is a gift that should be appreciated for the privilege that it is.
I only pray I can earn enough to turn my dial all the way to life, sometime before my body gives up on me
First of all, truly sorry to the author for what happened to them, it is devastating, and something that indeed will shake your world and priorities.
Any advice for people who are not finding the courage to quit, despite probably having the financial means to do so?
I came from very humble origins and moved to Silicon Valley from another country and have a gained a fairly solid financial situation, by having accumulated $5.5M liquid with expenses of around $50k (no kids, no mortgage, just a loving girlfriend).
I am so unhappy with work. I have changed 3 employers over the past 4 years and I’ve been more and more depressed with each transition. I spend my life in a state of immense disappointment about having to work. I am not even passionate about software anymore, so it’s not only the corporate madness (meetings, offices, coworkers, bosses, pressure to perform, code reviewers, etc). My weekends are filled with anxiety about Mondays.
I haven’t quit yet because everyone is telling me not to: my parents, still living in another country, are telling me to milk it until I am 45 (38 now), the few close friends I have are telling me not to squander the opportunity to earn until I get to $10-$15M due to real estate/healthcare/lifestyle costs going up (especially if I revisit the decision not to have kids, which I don’t think I will), and even financial communities like bogleheads/fire subs are telling me it’s not time yet and that I need to accumulate more given my privileged position.
I’ve tried a couple therapist but it didn’t work for me.
I also do not have anything to retire to: no particular passions, or hobbies. I just dream of spending a life of slow breakfasts, hiking on Monday mornings to celebrate a new week, reading books, slow traveling, and spending more time close to my aging parents.
This sounds like classic burnout. You just need to take a break from work, try 3 months or so.
Yeah, grandparent post should just take a year long sabbatical and come back when they’re feeling it.
That sucks, what he went through. That happens to a lot of people. As we get older, it tends to happen more often.
Sounds like he made exactly the correct choice. I support him in continuing to make correct choices. This is but the first of many.
I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of the tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job.
It absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. It also coincided with close family members having some health issues, so my being available has been beneficial.
In my case, I really enjoy programming and tech; just not when it is being ruined by terrible managers and coworkers. I was really starting to hate what I did, and having full control of my own process, made all the difference.
For one thing, it showed that I was usually right, in my personal philosophies, which were regularly disparaged by said managers. When given the chance to practice my own personal Process, things have been going very well, indeed.
So I get to work for free. It's a blast. I've gotten more accomplished, in the seven years, since I was pushed out, than I did, in the thirty preceding years.
In my case, I am involved in organizations that constantly surround me with people with whom I have very intimate relationships. Socializing isn't a problem; but I understand that it can be a real issue for retired people. This goes double, for ones that have the means to wall themselves off from others.
I do know a number of folks that preceded me, in retirement, after long, lucrative careers. Most, were dead within five years of retirement.
In my case, I feel that I'm just getting started.
> ...I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of the tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job...It absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me...
I would say i'm about a decade or maybe a decade and half before i can freely retire...But, already i see signs of the possibility of being frozen out of tech. Its such a fearful thing, and even moreso at a latter age! I quite enjoy technology both in isolation but also connecting proper tech to solve human problems...But so often it feels that at my $dayjobs, it always feels like we are solving the wrong problems...like chasing whatever some senior leader added into their presentation...as in, a goal for them, but not always something that is sustainable for the org, substantially helpful to people, etc. Its clear to me that while i still have the enthusiasm of my 25 year old around tech and genuinely helping people wit tech, i am so much more cynical about corporate use of tech. Nowadays, i'm at the point where i am seriously considering leaving tech, and trying to get some other job...and then only having fun with tech on the side, such as contributing to open source projects, playing on my own home lab, volunteering with orgs on digital divide, etc. I figure those sort of "hobbies" or side projects can also help me transition whenever the time comes for me to retire, of if/when i get pushed out. Now, i just have to ensure my costs are down so i can weather any salary hits.
@ChrisMarshallNY Sorry that you got impacted by a freezing out...But glad to hear that you're getting started on a new phase of life for you, and hoping it keeps being positive for you! Cheers!!!
> Now, i just have to ensure my costs are down so i can weather any salary hits.
That’s the key.
I have always lived extremely humbly, and haven’t carried any personal debt, beyond a mortgage on a very small house, since 1995. I maxed out my savings, and deferred stuff I couldn’t afford.
I’m still doing that now, and my savings generate more than I spend (for now). I’m hoping to have the ability to help my family, after I pass. They'll need as much help as possible.
Always enjoyed this blog. The post on thermal throttling stands out as a fun one, but there were many others. Hopefully Bruce comes back to writing at some point after some recovery time.
Hopefully he finds the writing is the recovery.
Or hopefully he finds anything at all that helps. I lost my mother just a little over a year ago and it was (is) hard. In addition to the pain of loss though losing your spouse has to be even more disruptive to moving forward with your life.
Sorry for your loss. Not that saying it makes it better, but I am.
Financially, you can retire. one less thing to add to the destruction.
I retired early this year. My advice to anyone seeking to do so is think clearly about it. Because once you do it, you can never go back to that world. The world of waking up early, having a boss tell you what to do, going to meetings that mean absolutely nothing, running on that hamster wheel, seems so trite and meaningless afterwards. That's a good thing, but you can never go back. Then it becomes time to concentrate on what life is really about- your health, your relationships, having fun and discovering what life is like without that tether on your ankle. Everyone isn't cut out for that, some need that hamster wheel. The best people are cut out for it. :)
That sounds like a terrible year. I feel sorry for the poster. Life can come at you fast and sometimes I feel like I’m just bracing myself for such a life changing event.
I too was at Google. But for 7 years, not 10. And my employment terminated in April, not because of a life event like his.
But the feelings he expressed resonate with me. I stopped enjoying work and my performance tanked coinciding with a reorg and manager change.
I did not miss my job which just a couple years ago I actually enjoyed.
I wasn’t seriously thinking of leaving my job. Being pushed out forced me to evaluate what I do if that happened - which it did. And that evaluation is that I’m a lot happier and can reset what I want from life - it doesn’t have to be full on retirement.
I have always thought about life in the long go term. What legacy do I want to leave, how do I want to spend the last years, what do I want the late years to look like with my wife.
Sometimes it takes the outside world to force you into the next thing. Life does not discriminate but the best you can do is take a big step back and try to find a new lens to look at it through. There are many lenses.